68 Living Life in Flow with Jackie Knechtel

Imagine a life of effortless success. If that sounds too good to be true, learn how to transform your life with entrepreneur Jackie Knechtel, a visionary leader and pioneer in the area of Flow Consciousness. Co-founder of the Flow Consciousness Institute, she guides mission-driven entrepreneurs to effortlessly create exponential success in life and business.
Melinda Wittstock:          Jackie, welcome to Wings.
Jackie Knechtel:                 Thanks so much for having me.
Melinda Wittstock:          I am so excited you're here because Flow Consciousness is such a beautiful concept. What does it feel like to be in flow consciousness?
Jackie Knechtel:                 Hmm. Well so, when you're living in flow consciousness, it feels like life is conspiring in your favor and the exact resources that you need to thrive and succeed in your life and your business, they show up effortlessly and in perfect synchronicity. So it's really operating from a place of effortlessness and the … It's really … It feels like life is magical and you come to a place of equanimity and have this emotional freedom where the world could be falling apart around you, yet you're able to maintain your center. You'll experience exponential growth. It's really … Once you experience it there's no other way to live.
Melinda Wittstock:          I think for a lot of people, it sounds a little too good to be true. Take me through your life and how you arrived at this understanding of flow consciousness to the point where you can help other people step into that.
Jackie Knechtel:                 Wow so I, in the past, was a people pleasing perfectionist, overachieving type A control freak New Yorker. And I very much was not living in flow for a good portion of my life and my career. And although I was super passionate about my work and I was living on purpose, I was operating out of alignment with myself in many ways. And I definitely prescribed to the hustle and grind that you had to work hard and I got to the point where I burnt out. And I got a chronic autoimmune condition. And was really just burning the candle at both ends. I had no boundaries so I kept giving and giving and giving of myself until there was nothing left to give and I was falling apart.
And there was a major catalyst in my life that really was a wake-up call for me to examine if I were truly living life on my terms and what would that look like. And I realized that I'd wanted to travel around the world for so long but I felt like I couldn't do it because I had a private practice. I had a mortgage. I had all of these things and reasons why I couldn't live what I wanted to do. And, at one point, I had just … I gave it all up. I walked away from my business. I walked away from my apartment. I left everything behind and I traveled around the world for a year. And that was really my training ground. And learning to really surrender to life and to truly live moment to moment…And to relinquish control and not have to micromanage everything in my life and really I experienced such freedom and such a joy and that was really when my life started to shift.
 
Melinda Wittstock:          So there you are. You're traveling around the world and it sounds like this is a process obviously to be able to arrive at this … at flow consciousness. That it's not something that necessarily happens overnight. Or did it?
So what was the spark? Was there a moment of epiphany or was it a very gradual process?
Jackie Knechtel:                 For me, I think it was a gradual process. A series of awakening moments and deep profound healing and really when I left and went on this trip around the world, it was my hero's journey. So I had faced tremendous adversity and tragedy in the loss of my brother, which was really what set me off on this journey of self discovery and going in and examining who am I? This … It was really this question of asking myself, who am I?
So we have this tendency to define ourselves externally by our career, by our job title, by our achievements. So we identify as I'm a sister, I'm a daughter, I'm a lover, I'm a friend, I'm a teacher, I'm a whatever it is that your career is or your achievements or accomplishments. We tend to take that on as who we are. But I really sat in the inquiry of who am I beneath all of these layers of ‘egoic’ identification. And that was really a catalyst to go really deep within and really launched me on this journey of self-discovery.
So a large part of flow consciousness is doing kind of a deep dive into your consciousness to uproot all of these limiting beliefs. Like you're saying that that little voice that tells you you're not good enough, or you're not worthy; you're not deserving, and really doing the work to uproot limiting beliefs, emotional trauma, process and integrate all of that at the mental, emotional, energetic and physical levels so you truly become free. And then you get to the layer that's beneath all of this perceived identity and you get to this place of who you really are which is limitless and to be living in this space of emotional freedom and pure potentiality.
Melinda Wittstock:          I remember when I first took up meditation. And I was terrible at it to begin with. I mean really terrible. I have such a hard time quieting my mind. And I had to do yoga. I had to do like activity with it to be able to do it. But I remember someone saying to me at one point, just watch your thoughts pass by. Feel your feelings. Don't judge them. Just kind of be detached from them. Like, sort of like, oh that's interesting. You know what is that showing me about me, and not judging them or being attached to them. I remember that being such a radical concept. And now, it's not for me anymore. Now it's just that I always do that. If something bad happens, it's kind of like, oh, that's interesting. Right? Trying to get rid of that attachment, I guess.
And that meditation has led me on quite a spiritual journey that is also surprising when I think of what I was like in New York and in London in my 20s and 30s kind of charging around like a ball of stress, right?
Jackie Knechtel:                                   Yeah.
Melinda Wittstock:          But it's interesting isn't it, this idea that you are not your thoughts, right? Or your emotions even; that you're something other than that. Something more divine than that in fact.
Jackie Knechtel:                 Absolutely and what you're sharing is definitely an amazing piece of advice for people to follow. And most of us we don't want to feel our feelings. We're taught that it's bad to experience sadness and anger and all of these things. So we don't know what to do with it and so we tend to stuff it down. We tend to push it away and not want to experience these “negative” emotions. And that resistance only just makes things get stuck and re-triggered and they come out sideways. So as you're saying, if you just be present with your emotions and allow them to arise and witness them, and be with the experience with them from a place of love and compassion, they'll dissolve.
And then the deeper layer to that is coming to the understanding of what is creating these thoughts, these negative thoughts. And so, you can do a mindful questioning practice. And as you're having these negative thoughts and that little voice in your head is nagging and saying all of these horrible things, you can ask yourself what must I believe in order to be having this thought? Or what must I believe in order to be having this experience? Or what does this mean about me?
And really by doing this process, mindful questioning practice, you get to the core belief that is creating the thought. So in flow consciousness, we use a framework called betdar and it's B-E-T-D-A-R. And it's this idea that at the core of everything is your beliefs. So it's your belief structures, these perceptual frames that we see life through that create our experience of our reality. So we don't see things as they are. We see things as we are through these perceptual frames of our beliefs.
And those beliefs create our emotional state, right?
Melinda Wittstock:          So it's almost like everybody that we meet and interact with, our friends, our team members. You know if you run a business, you know your clients or whatever. When we get triggered by people…it's really that they're just shining a mirror up to, up to ourselves.
Jackie Knechtel:                 Yeah. I mean it offers a lot of valuable insight. Because if you're getting triggered … I now get excited and curious if I'm feeling triggered. I'm feeling this emotional charge around something. Cause then I get to access a deeper layer of something that I haven't fully healed and integrated. So if I'm experiencing an emotional charge or trigger around someone or something, that gives me data that I can then use to reverse engineer to get to a core belief that would be creating this emotional experience and also the thoughts that I'm having. And that influence the decisions that I make, the actions that I take and ultimately, the results that I'm getting.
So I can change the results that I'm getting by shifting the core belief.
Melinda Wittstock:          See now that's so interesting. Because we must have millions of beliefs. Consciously or not, right? So on one hand, you have all these beliefs that you're accumulating through your life, right, from your parents or even a TV show that you were watching when you were a little kid. A glossy magazine, social media, I don't know, like this is all around us. Religion, politics, everything. So we have millions and millions of beliefs and then if some of them were awkward or we had an experience that was bad, and we formed beliefs around that experience, and then buried it because we didn't want to feel it, my God it means we're being run by forces that we don't even know. Unless we spend this time just trying to peel that all back.
Jackie Knechtel:                 Yeah it's exactly it. We are so often operating from our unconscious programming. And the good thing is, you get to change your beliefs, right? So at some point, you believed in the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus, and then your brother ruined it for you and you know.
Melinda Wittstock:          Yeah, my kids discovered there was no Santa Claus about a year and a half ago. They felt a little betrayed.
But yeah, but no you're right. And I think that there's so many beliefs that I still discovered that I maybe have or might have. I don't know whether it's just … Like for years, I had this belief that I was only deserving of success if I'd worked really hard for it. Now that runs absolutely bio metrically opposed, it sounds like, to flow consciousness because if it's effortless, you shouldn't necessarily have to strive. It shouldn't feel like a Sisyphean like a push the boulder up the mountain kind of task. And that's not necessarily you don't do work.
Jackie Knechtel:                                   Exactly.
Melinda Wittstock:          But define effortlessness. Because I think some people when they think of things like the law of attraction, think they just can sit there and visualize it and do their vision board and then it's going to happen. It doesn't quite work that way.
Jackie Knechtel:                 Exactly. And so, yeah, we are creating this new paradigm of effortlessness and that you can have success with the hustle, the grind, the struggle. And these are deeply, deeply ingrained cultural means for us. It's no pain, no gain. And all of these things have been programmed in. So we think that, oh well if I'm not working hard, then I don't deserve success. All of these things that you just said! And the things about effortlessness, it's not that you're never going to be doing work. It's just you're doing work that you love. That's in alignment. So we work all the time.
Melinda Wittstock:          Yeah, it doesn't feel like work.
Jackie Knechtel:                 It doesn't feel like work because we love what we're doing. And we're doing the things that are in our zone of genius, that feel effortless and that feel like play. And that also, we tend to get into these boxes of how we think we should do things. How I should build my business. I need to copy the way Gary Vee {Gary Vaynerchuk] does things or have a funnel, look a certain way and we box ourselves into the way we think it has to happen. Which doesn't allow for other possibilities. So it's not that you're not working. It's that you're just taking inspired action and you're doing the things that feel in alignment with your passion, and your purpose. Your zone of genius. So then they take on this quality of effortlessness.
But then also, as you calibrate to more and more flow, and you're following your intuition, and following your excitement, and your passion, things really do become more effortless. The right people that you need to meet tend to show up and things come to you rather than you having to push and effort and struggle.
Melinda Wittstock:          It's interesting though about attracting things and people and opportunities in your life. When you're in alignment, it does tend to happen. I mean I think even about this podcast, Jackie. So here's a miraculous thing that's been happening. So I'm totally in flow state with this. It's effortless. It's easy. I ask questions entirely based on my intuition. The right women seem to show up on the very day that I'm thinking about something. It's uncanny. It just seems, not to be like work. And for the longest time in my life, I thought it was only success if it was hard. So I always picked hard companies to go run. Like I'm going to invent an algorithm to measure authenticity. Okay, like, that's hard.
Jackie Knechtel:                                   Yeah.
Melinda Wittstock:          Right, so like I always thought that success wasn't really worth it unless it was hard and there was this whole belief structure underneath that, whereas interviewing and doing this sort of thing has always been easy for me. So I think that because it was easy, I didn't value it as much. But so I find myself saying this and thinking, oh how interesting. Like how many people do in say the start-up world, pick something that's really hard, not because they're in alignment with it but because they think they have to.
How many people end up doing businesses that really are somebody else's business? It's not really theirs. It's not really who they are. You know when you think of some of the people you work with and clients and this concept of alignment, and getting into that sense of alignment where work is fun and flow and things, opportunities, the right people, all that you're describing in terms of flow consciousness, what are some of the things that stop people from taking this journey?
Jackie Knechtel:                 Well I'd say that fear is the number one dream killer and people get stuck doing things that they aren't super passionate about or don't feel fully aligned with. It isn't their purpose; it isn't their passion. Because they're afraid! They're afraid to really step into their power. They're afraid to shine. They're afraid to take the risks. They're afraid that they won't be able to support themselves. I mean I think that's probably the biggest one that we see is, if I'm truly doing what I love and living my passion and my purpose, I won't be able to pay my bills. I won't be able to pay staff. I won't be able to thrive. And that is a huge one for people that they come up against and they just think it's not possible to make money doing what I love.
Melinda Wittstock:          And yet the truth is the exact opposite. I mean this is something that I've discovered relatively recently but it's true. I mean it's the opposite because if you're in that sense of abundance and if you're doing what you really truly love, all kinds of miracles tend to happen.
Jackie Knechtel:                 Yeah and that's the thing. Once you start this process of shifting into flow consciousness, and following your excitement and following your intuition, you quickly come up against your edges. So you'll come to the boundaries of your comfort zone and you'll be shown your fears and your limiting beliefs and all of the things that you believe to be true that are holding you back.
So it's really … People stay in their comfort zone because they crave security. They crave safety. They crave predictability. But yet, at the same time, paradoxically they're slowly dying inside because they have this passion or this dream or this vision that they really want to bring forth into the world but they just have all of these things that are getting in the way.
Melinda Wittstock:          You mentioned something. Being afraid to shine. And I … That tends to ring true, I think, for a lot of women in particular. I mean, some people … I had a guest on the podcast who described it as the tall poppy syndrome. Because women are so acutely concerned with what other women think of them and it's kind of like if you succeed too much, you're afraid that other women aren't going to like you.
That odd, I don't know, almost a strange competition between women that makes women be afraid to shine. What's that about and how can women get out of that way of thinking?
Jackie Knechtel:                 Well I think that probably speaks to one of our core fears as human beings, and this really primal need to belong – and the need to be a part of the tribe. And back in the hunter/gatherer days, if you were kicked out … if you did something, you'd be kicked out of the tribe, you'd die. So there's this really primal urge to belong and conform and fit in. So also, I think in our culture, really it's not … We're not taught to celebrate each other's wins and really boost each other up. There's kind of this culture of … just kind of commiserating with each other and that's something that I really, I really don't engage in. And I can't participate in this.
People bond over all of the things that are going wrong in their lives or they feel like that's a way to really relate to each other. And … So I think, now there's lots of layers to why people are afraid to really shine. They don't want to be seen as braggy.  If I celebrate my wins and really show up in my full capacity, I don't want others to feel bad about themselves. I don't want other people to think I'm arrogant or cocky or braggy. There's all of these different perceptions that need to be shifted overall as a society. To really support and empower each other rather than tearing each other down.
Melinda Wittstock:          Yeah it's interesting because I think we think we're being compassionate but then we end up limiting ourselves. We're not being compassionate to ourselves.
Jackie Knechtel:                                   Right.
Melinda Wittstock:          So Jackie I want to go back in time a little bit to, you know you mentioned there was this moment where you quit your job, you left your apartment, you left town. You went to travel all over the world and so what were some of the first things that started to happen that kind of tuned you in, I guess, to being in flow or abundance. What were some of those first miracles where you said wow, goodness, that was effortless., that just happened?
Jackie Knechtel:                 Wow that's taking me back. So to kind of put myself in that place where I was about to leap and walk away from everything that I had worked so hard to build and the success that I accumulated, and I was definitely, I was a bit afraid. But I was also really, really excited. And there was a part of me that didn't think it was possible to do this. I mean it just didn't make any sense to do it. Who would walk away from a super successful career? There were all these reasons that it didn't logically make sense.
Melinda Wittstock:          What were you doing in your career right at that point, when you left?
Jackie Knechtel:                 I was an autism specialist. So I was a speech pathologist and behavior specialist for children with autism and helped them to communicate whether verbally or non-verbally.
Melinda Wittstock:          So you're successful at that, you walk away. You've had this terrible tragedy in your life with your brother and so often, you know, our personal growth sadly really is spurred by tragedy or adversity in some way. It kind of shocks us, makes us think or think differently. It's … I suppose there are lots of reasons for it but you're on this journey and you've taken this big leap, and so when's that first moment where you think, right yes I was right to do this?
Jackie Knechtel:                 Well I think there were so many and I even just my first stop was in Peru and my older brother and I went to scatter our brother's ashes at Machu Picchu. And it was that moment where my older brother left. He went back to New York, back to his job. And I realized … I'm actually doing this. I am actually doing this thing that terrifies me and also, really, really excites me. And here I am alone, a single female, about to embark on this trip circumnavigating the southern hemisphere. And I'm in a Spanish speaking country with mediocre Spanish. I'm going to go to all of these places where I've been warned so many terrible things about. I mean, once you tell someone you're traveling, you get so many people who feel compelled to tell you that you're going to get robbed. They're going to rip your jewelry off your neck and like all of the terrible things that could go wrong, you're going to hear about.
And so I was in this place of I am really actually about to do this thing and face my fears. And I just had this sense that, I got this. I can do this. And if it doesn't work out I could always come home. But I'm going for this. And so that was a huge shift. And then I think there was the part of me that was the meticulous planner always micromanaging and controlling for everything in my life that as you're traveling in third world countries, it just doesn't work.
So I think I had a budget and a plan for maybe the first two or three days and then that kind of all went out the window. And I really learned to surrender to each moment and there were things … I'd meet people along the way that would tell me about this incredible place that I had to go see and had I had it all planned out, I would have missed out on some many things.
So I would meet up with strangers and decide to travel with them for weeks. And I actually … it was just my birthday and I asked for some reflections of some fond memories and I got hundreds of responses and they're all people that I met on my travels all over the world and they were complete strangers and we ended up doing two weeks or a month or having all of these incredible adventures together. But had I stayed in that controlling fear based kind of state, I would have missed out on all of these beautiful experiences with all of these beautiful people. So that was … You know another core shift to really truly live in the moment and not think so far ahead and not have to plan and not have to have it all figured out. To really just be in each moment asking myself who I want to spend time with. What do I want to be doing? Where do I want to go and honoring that.
So that was really a profound shift for me.
Melinda Wittstock:          I remember when I first met you. I think it was at Mastermind Talks in Ojai.
Jackie Knechtel:                                   It was.
Melinda Wittstock:          And what a beautiful experience that was. And I remember being so intrigued. You were telling a story about how you had turned down a million dollars. And I remember my mind was blown – because most people wouldn't do that. So I'd love you share that story here because it's so inspiring. You know, when you turn down something that didn't feel like it was the right alignment, but it's a million dollars.
Jackie Knechtel:                 Yeah. Yeah so, as I said, I was an autism specialist in my previous career. And I have this vision that I'm still holding this vision to revolutionize the therapy delivery model for special needs. And I worked with so many families who … It's this caregiver syndrome where they give until they, themselves, fall apart, which is what happened exactly to me as a therapist. So the vision is to have these multi-disciplinary centers for the children but combined with a holistic wellness center for the parents. And I kept sharing about this vision with everyone that I met until one day, I was offered funding to build out this vision and logically, on paper, it seemed like everything that I wanted had shown up. And inside, it didn't feel alive to me. It just felt heavy and contracting. And that's how I check in with my intuition.
So my intuition speaks very clearly to me in this felt sense, and so my logical mind was going crazy like take this. This is like everything you've said you've wanted for the last several years. But my body was telling me a very different story. And nothing about it was exciting me or lighting me up. So, I walked away from this offer and people thought I was crazy. And I just knew it wasn't right. It wasn't what I truly wanted. And I set out to coach on a incubator in Chile without being paid instead so really, people did not get that.
But within a few days, I ended up meeting someone who introduced me to a neuroscientist who was using magnetic resonance to harmonize the brainwaves of children with autism and working with this really powerful technology. And met a geneticist mapping the autism genome and all of these other people that felt like a hell yes, started to show up. So being able to say no to the nine, made space for the ten to show up.
Melinda Wittstock:          Isn't that interesting because you need to literally clean out your closet, you know, like get rid of the stuff to create space for the stuff that's actually right.
Jackie Knechtel:                                   Yeah.
Melinda Wittstock:          And that takes a lot of guts. I mean what you did.
Jackie Knechtel:                 And that's where the work comes in. I'm not well versed in following my intuition. Whereas most people, they go into fear thinking well maybe another offer won't show up. Or maybe this is my only chance or something and they say yes to the thing that isn't truly what they want or maybe they think it's what they want in the moment but they're not super clear. And they make a decision based on fear or logic rather than this felt sense. Which our intuition is so much more powerful because our rational minds are inherently limited based on our belief structures. So by operating from intuition you have access to an infinite field of possibilities and data that you can't access through your rational mind.
But most people, we're taught and trained to operate from logic, from our rational minds. So they tend to override intuition.
Melinda Wittstock:          That's so interesting because even like now when I do intentions, I'm realizing that my mind is even limiting the intention. So now, I'm at the point where at the end of the intention, I add, “this or something more.” This or something better because it's like there's a humility…Because I don't even know what's possible. So it's like your mind is inherently limited in terms of what you can imagine.
I had a wonderful guest, a dear friend on the podcast several episodes ago who was talking about manifesting and how she would just kind of put crazy things in there. Like stuff that she didn't even know she would want just to try and get out of that limiting belief structure around there. Because we don't even … Our minds sometimes can't even imagine what's possible and when some of the things that you've manifested or just meeting the right person or how you … Didn't you come to be in Saudi Arabia for a little bit?
Jackie Knechtel:                 Yeah, yeah. I was living with the former mayor of Mecca. And had a really incredible experience.
Melinda Wittstock:          So when people talk about things like getting into flow state…where I think a lot of people do experience this for short bursts. Periods of time. Where it's kind of those moments where you forget time. You get so wrapped up in something that you're doing that time kind of goes away. Or something manifests. Or something like that. So you're in that flow state for a moment but then it's really easy to slip back into the old way? And kind of go back and forth. And I think a lot of people who are pretty highly evolved are still kind of in that state. But to be in flow consciousness, as sort of like a constant, as just the way you are, what is that process? What does it take? When you're working for people at the Flow Consciousness Institute, like how are you training them to kind of get into that modality or way of being?
Jackie Knechtel:                 Yeah so I think it's an important distinction between flow states and flow consciousness. As you're saying the flow state is inherently temporary because it's a transitory state of consciousness, or pique performance. And so, it's along the same continuum of flow whereas flow consciousness is more … it's a way of being. And so, you can be in it all the time. And so, you can never paradoxically truly ever be out of flow but there are times when you are experiencing more flow or less flow. And so you can … There's different ways that you can calibrate to how in flow you are.
And so with Flow Consciousness, we teach different practices and it's a two part system. So there's inner flow, which is a process of deep interwork working with limiting beliefs and emotional trauma as we were discussing before. And then the second part is a principle based belief system that really guides you with different practices and tools to accelerate and expand and live in more effortless flow.
So it's more, it's a way of being and you can be more or less in flow. And there's ways to kind of move more into flow and accelerate that.
Melinda Wittstock:          So you lead all these retreats, workshops, and transformational experiences. Tell us about those. What are they like and if people are interested in learning more or signing up, how do they do that?
Jackie Knechtel:                 Well, we share this work in many different ways. So we have an eight-week online training called Flow Mastery that our next class is beginning in a few weeks. We do retreats around the world. We often speak at other people's retreats so we're partnered with Unconventional Life, which does these amazing experiences of entrepreneurship meets personal development and spirituality. So really merging highly successful entrepreneurs with practices that they're maybe not normally exposed to, such as flow consciousness or breath work…All of these different beautiful things.
And so, we create these magical experiences all over the world. We've got experiences coming up in Cape Town, Hawaii, Croatia and Bali. And then, we've been sharing this work at different conferences and retreats around the world. And we also, we do in person live trainings in Santa Barbara, three days live trainings where we teach all of the contents of the flow mastery course in a live experience.
So there's a load of different ways to engage with the work.
Melinda Wittstock:          That's wonderful. I absolutely must sign up for one or more of your epic experiences. I mean they sound amazing.
On this podcast, one of the predictors of success and the pattern that's evident in every single successful female entrepreneur that I interview is getting into the right mindset. That personal growth and business growth are one and the same; that you can't really have one without the other. And so, I love how you're linking the entrepreneurship to the personal growth in these experiences. So yes, it sounds wonderful.
Jackie Knechtel:                 Well, I really feel that our businesses are an extension of ourselves and our lives so absolutely they are a reflection of our inner world and so they need to go together in my opinion.
Melinda Wittstock:          That's really interesting. So if a business is a reflection of your inner world and you're having a hard time making payroll or you're having a hard time … I don't know getting the right type of client or maybe the clients are underpaying you or maybe … I don't know, you're having a hard time creating a great culture or holding onto people. I'm putting air quotes around business problems, business struggles, business challenges. These are all essentially a manifestation of what's going on in your own head in your own limiting beliefs?
Jackie Knechtel:                 I would say it's not a hard or fast rule that there are external factors at play as well. But often times, it is a reflection of our beliefs or our fears if we're encountering resistance or challenges in our business. It could look like not putting yourself out on video because you feel like you have nothing to say. Or you're worried about how you're going to come across. Or have fraud or imposter syndrome. There's so many ways that people kind of hold themselves back in their business that can be kind of course corrected with an internal shift.
Melinda Wittstock:          Absolutely. I think it's vital for any entrepreneur to really … And even if you don't set out to do it, you end up doing it to succeed. Even if you end up making … I've seen people make loads and loads of money and arrive at a destination where they think, right that's it. I achieved what I was going to achieve and then they find themselves unhappy.
Jackie Knechtel:                 Yeah I mean we see that all the time. There's people who have external worldly success but are lacking fulfillment. And we have this idea that abundance means money whereas I think abundance really just having the resources that you need to live the life that you love and that you want to be living. So the monetary wealth doesn't necessarily mean happiness.
Melinda Wittstock:          That's very true. And so how can people contact you, Jackie, and work with you? What's the best way to get in touch with you or find you on social media?
Jackie Knechtel:                 You can go to our website flowconsciousnessinstitute.com, and that has all of the resources, upcoming events. It has our information about our training programs so you can connect with us there. You can find us on social media. Look for me on Facebook. Jackie Knechtel. There's so many different ways, but we'd love to, we'd love to hear from you. Drop us a line. Come to one of our retreats. We'd love to bring some more effortless flow into your lives.
Melinda Wittstock:          Absolutely. Well I'll make sure that all of that is in the show notes.
Jackie, thank you so much for such a beautiful interview and sharing your experience – and your transformation into flow consciousness. Really, really appreciate it. It's a very inspiring and uplifting thing to be talking about today. Thank you.
Jackie Knechtel:                                   Thank you so much. My absolute pleasure.
 

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