215: Allison Maslan – Scale or Fail
Allison Maslan has built 10 businesses from startup to the high 7 and 8 figures. Today Allison launches her new bestselling book Scale or Fail. She shares the five stages of scaling from solopreneur “Seeker” to scaling “Visionary”, what stands in the way of most entrepreneurs reaching the tipping point in their business when they can focus on working on their business instead of in it, and why scaling success is a bit like mastering the trapeze.
Melinda Wittstock: Allison, welcome to Wings.
Allison Maslan: Thank you Melinda for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I love, love your podcast.
Melinda Wittstock: Oh, well thank you so much. I'm excited to have you because you are the first woman to write about something that's near and dear to my heart, which is how to scale a business. What inspired you to write Scale or Fail?
Allison Maslan: Well, building companies for the last 35 years I've definitely … I know what it's like to hit that wall in growing your business going, “How can I get this thing to the other side?” And now in the work I do in mentoring business owners my team and I, we see so many business owners get stuck there at this wall, and I have figured out how to soar over the wall, and so I want to share that path with as many people as I can.
Melinda Wittstock: Well I love that metaphor of course, this being Wings, and you, my dear, are already soaring so high, because I mean today is your launch day, but you've already hit the best seller list like a number of times. Congratulations on that.
Allison Maslan: Thank you.
Melinda Wittstock: And it's so interesting, too, that this book right now about scaling is so popular. It just seems like your timing is immaculate.
Allison Maslan: Yeah, it's funny how the universe works because this is something that I've been wanting to write for some time, but in the midst of also building your companies, having that extra time to write a book is not always convenient, so it got pushed back. It kept kind of getting pushed back with different things. But now I know why because it was meant to come out at this time, so there is a divine plan. Sometimes we don't always … we can't figure it out, what's the slow down.
Melinda Wittstock: Oh my goodness. This is the beauty of podcasting, you can hear my dog Josie barking in the background. I think she was just agreeing with you.
Allison Maslan: Yeah. Well, my dog's over here too, Daisy, and she's … They're having some doggie communication going on.
Melinda Wittstock: I think they probably are.
Melinda Wittstock: Allison I love what you say about divine timing. You know, I think the further along I've gotten in my own entrepreneurial journey I've kind of learned to sort of get out of the way of the universe, I guess. Right? It has a plan, and when you're in alignment and you really are living your true purpose all these kind of miracles manifest.
Allison Maslan: It's so true, Melinda, and the harder we fight against it, the more … You know, the universe is going to prevail no matter what, and so we can either go with the flow or we can fight it. I personally like going with the flow, it's a little less painful.
Melinda Wittstock: It is a little less painful. It's interesting, too, how this relates to scaling a company, because I see so many women who get stuck in what I'll call a task treadmill. They will confuse “having it all” with “doing it all”, right? And it completely stands in the way of scale because of course there's only one of you, and you can't do everything and expect to grow a profitable business. What is it you think that prevents most women from growing and scaling large enterprise based businesses?
Allison Maslan: I think the number one thing, Melinda, is that they feel like it's not possible. Like they can't even imagine themselves doing something like that. And oftentimes just in humanity in general we have to see that it's possible first to then do it. For instance, before someone had broken the three minute mile, it just wasn't happening. Then all of a sudden that record was broken, and then lots of people were running the three minute mile. Or in gymnastics, I was a gymnast growing up, and once Nadia Comaneci hit the perfect 10 … Everybody was hitting 10s and they had to change the whole scoring systems.
So I think first, in our mind, we have to be able to see that it's actually possible.
Melinda Wittstock: You know, Allison, that's so profound because what we believe about ourselves, ultimately, is going to dictate what we can do. It was so interesting, a couple of weeks ago, I had the honor of being on a panel on female entrepreneurship at the Manhattan Chamber of Commerce. One of my fellow panelists asked this room full of women, all kind of rising executives and a lot of them entrepreneurs, to name five female entrepreneurs. Kind of seemingly a simple request. I thought there'd be a lot of people shouting. It was deathly silent, like for what seemed to me like this eternity. I was like, “What is going on here?” Then finally, one of my panelists said, “Anybody? Spanx?” And they're just like, “Oh yeah, right, Sara Blakely.” And then someone shouted Oprah, then someone said Ann Taylor. Then there was another long pause. Another panelist said, “Come on everybody, expensive flip flops, and someone came up with Tory Burch. It went like that.
It occurred to me that there are so many women who are growing and scaling amazing businesses, it's just we don't know who they are. We're succeeding in silence!
Allison Maslan: I know. Isn't that crazy? I just interviewed Alli Webb, who is the founder of Drybar, at my event. She was fantastic, and what a great story. But she's out there now building her brand. But I think a lot of women have just, especially the ones that have been building these big enterprises, they've been busy building the business. But if you're scaling it appropriately, you're able to step back and your team is able to take it and run with it, and that's what Alli has been able to do, and Sara Blakely, and Kara Goldin, which I believe you've interviewed her.
Melinda Wittstock: Yeah, Kara is amazing. I mean, how she's managed to grow this, I think if it hasn't hit $1 billion yet it's about to.
Allison Maslan: Yeah, for sure. She will. Actually, she said to me on the phone, and I will never forget this, I was talking to her because she spoke at my event as well a few years ago, she said, “You know Allison, when I was starting Hint, I thought it was going to be a billion dollar company. Now, I know it's going to be a $2 billion company.”
Melinda Wittstock: Oh, how wonderful.
Allison Maslan: Oh yeah, that impacted me because I thought, “Wow.” The certainty in her voice, “Now I know it's going to be a $2 billion company.” I think that you don't have to know how it's going to get there, but you just have to believe in your core that it will happen.
Melinda Wittstock: Now that is so important, not to sweat the how. I think we end up playing small when we get really into the detail and into the weeds of the how because again, back to the universe, it may have a better idea. Right? If you know where you're going, and you're open to spotting opportunity and you're open to inspiration and acting on that inspiration with very focused massive action, when the inspiration hits, you are much more likely to get where you want to go. I love it that she put a two billion on it.
Allison Maslan: I know! Don't you think it's way to small with a billion, Melinda?
Melinda Wittstock: I know, a billion, ha. Right? Let's talk, yes, much more than that. Or at least 11, let's go to 11 figures. Why not? I love that.
I think now that women have this tremendous opportunity to really step into our true potential. I mean, we spot a lot of opportunities in the marketplace that men don't spot. We tend to connect the dots in a slightly different way. I think as long as we're thinking and playing big enough, we can do amazing things. I mean, you see companies that are becoming movements, almost. I think of Tina Sharkey building Brandless. That's surely going to be a billion or $2 billion business as well. And she's really busy building a movement where her customers are so excited and so bought into the vision that in effect, they're being the salesperson for Tina because it's a movement.
That's a lovely way to be able to scale a business when your customers are your sales force.
Allison Maslan: It is so true. The thing is, she is very passionate about what she's creating in the world. That's what it takes, is to be so excited about what you're doing to the point where you're screaming it from the rooftops. You know, it just exudes from you that you can't help but talk about it, or you can't stop talking about it.
Melinda Wittstock: I know, that's absolutely what it takes. I want to break down a little bit, let's get into the book, Scale or Fail, in particular the different phases that I know that you write about, because I've heard you talk about this, and of course you're on the Wings of Success Program as well with a wonderful lesson for everybody on how we go from startup to scale. Let's break it down into some of the phases right here, right now. What's phase one?
Allison Maslan: All right, phase one I call The Seeker. This is the solopreneur. You've got this passion, you're ready to embark on an adventure, put it out into the world, you might have a business partner as well, but you are really doing everything. So this is The Seeker. That's phase one.
Phase two is The Pioneer. The Pioneer is where you are now getting your hands dirty. You are forging your path. You might have a small team of an assistant, of a bookkeeper, of a marketing person, and that's pretty much it. You are still approving everything that goes in and out of your business. You're learning to delegate and you're starting to put some systems into place. That's phase two.
Phase three I call The Ring Leader because it's a circus. You can't skip over these phases because it's kind of like crawling, to walking, to running. You have to go through those phases to get to the other side. But there's an optimal way to be in those phases, and I share that in the book. But phase three is a circus because you're starting to build teams in those divisions of your company. You might have an admin team, a marketing team, a sales team, a customer delivery team, whatever it is that you're offering is.
And even though you are starting to get clarity on your vision, you probably have people in the wrong roles. You have people coming and going, there's frustration from you, the CEO, the founder, “Why aren't people performing like they're supposed to?” Generally it's because you're still being a boss in phase three, you haven't really evolved into being a leader where you're inspiring people to action through your big picture vision. There are 70% of the workforce is unengaged. So my guess is 70%, you probably have some employees within that statistic. But it's normal because you're still trying to figure it out, you're putting systems in place, and you're beginning to take those leaps.
But the scary part, Melinda, is that so many business owners get stuck in phase three, and their business dies there.
Melinda Wittstock: Oh my goodness, this is so true. I think one of the scariest things sometimes is really fast growth because you think, “Oh, this is awesome. We're growing so fast, we've got so much customer demand,” and the systems, and the hiring, and all of that just can't keep up. So yeah, people do get in the wrong seats. And the founder and the founding team barely has enough time to be able to shed their former skin and step into this kind of new way, and new way of thinking, which is quite the transformation. Right? Like you mentioned just a moment ago, you've got to be almost a different person. I mean, you're still you, but it's so psychologically different.
So is it the growth, the really fast growth that makes that really difficult for people? Or is it just because a lot of people just don't know how? To they're afraid of change that prevents them from getting to this next level that you're about to talk about?
Allison Maslan: You know, we are creatures of habit, and we often feel like, “Gosh, if I just work harder, then I'll get over that wall I was talking about.” We micromanage in this phase. We're afraid that everything is going to fall apart that we worked so hard for that our team is going to make mistakes. You end up just squeezing and you put out this message of I don't trust you. Think about your children. If you're constantly jumping in and rescuing them, they're never going to spread their wings and fly. They know unconsciously “Oh well, there's the fallback. Mom's going to fix it for me.” The employees are the same way. It's not their attention, but if you're constantly showing them do it this way, do it this way, they don't really have to flex their muscles and figure it out themselves.
Melinda Wittstock: Gosh. Now, this is great, when the team is aligned on mission and vision and the founder or the owner has to figure out how to get out of their way, so there's alignment but diversity as well.
Allison Maslan: Exactly. Exactly. It's also taking a leap. It's like flying on the trapeze, you have to be willing to let go of that trapeze bar, and it's like reinventing yourself at the higher level. It's not starting over, but it's like you have to build a new house, a new platform for yourself, a new way of really running your company and stepping into that leadership role and stepping back. That's what moves us into phase four, which is the co-creator. You have to stop micromanaging, and you're working together. You're co-creating meaning that when your team comes and asks you for questions, instead of giving them the answer, you say things like “Well, how would you do it?” or “Why don't you come up with a plan and present it to the team?”
Melinda Wittstock: That's so funny. I do that in phase one and phase two of my businesses, but maybe it was because I learned to do it like a long time ago in business number one and so now as a serial entrepreneur I want to see that from people right from the get-go.
Allison Maslan: That's fantastic that you do do that.
Melinda Wittstock: Yeah. Because you can do that at that seeker phase where you probably have vendors. In the pioneer stage certainly, when you're starting to kind of bring people on. Allison, what is it that makes us so afraid to co-create or to give our teams kind of latitude to figure out a different way of doing it that might be better than what we can think of?
Is it fear?
Allison Maslan: I think it absolutely is fear, but I think underlying we're all control freaks. Some more than others, but it's just like you almost have to take a crowbar and [inaudible [spp-timestamp time="00:21:02"] off of it to let go. It's scary. It's your baby. You care about it. For many business owners, it's their livelihood, so it's just fear if they make a mistake, we're going lose this big account. We've worked so hard for it. If you look at just the science of it, if you pick up a pencil and you hold on to that pencil, and then you drop the pencil, it's actually a lot less energy to drop the pencil than it is to hold on. We think it's the opposite. We think it's harder to let go, but the truth is it's actually easier to let go.
Once you do, once we see our clients that work with and we get them to let go, we have to like “Look, you got to do this by tomorrow and call me back” because otherwise they'll drag it on forever. Then, they're like “Oh my god, I don't know why I didn't do this years ago. I have a life now. I can go on vacation with my family and my team is stepping up and I had no idea that they had this capability in them.” It's like a breath of fresh air.
Melinda Wittstock: Isn't that a wonderful feeling though to empower others and see them really step into their greatness? It's really a more abundant way of thinking that everybody on your team can and should and really must be A players, must be great, and so your job, I guess, as the CEO at the point is really about empowering your team.
Allison Maslan: It really is and it's not for everybody. I'm going to be straight with you here. Somebody people, they don't want to be around a team. If that's the case, then you may not be in a position that you want to scale your business.
Melinda Wittstock: You may be the founder. You may be the kind of starter. The person that starts businesses and exits quickly or gets out of the way. Stays an owner, but then hires a CEO. There's a whole bunch of different ways to do it, but yeah you're right. You really have to know yourself.
Allison Maslan: You really do. I love having a team. I like the community. I love the comradery of people working together for the greater good of a vision, and I love stretching them. I've had team members that were like “No, I'm scared and I don't think I can do that.” I said “You know what, I believe in you. I know you can.” Then, they did it and you just see their eyes light up and their confidence grows. This is how you as the leader lift up other leaders.
Melinda Wittstock: Absolutely, which is vital to scale. There's something you said a moment ago about it's easier to let go than to hang on. It's interesting. The metaphor of the trapeze because of course you are a virtuoso at the trapeze. I happen to know you have one in your backyard, Allison, and I know that I'm going to have to learn how to let go on your trapeze.
Allison Maslan: Yeah.
Melinda Wittstock: I figure if I can let go on that trapeze and trust, that's going to be a big breakthrough for me personally.
Allison Maslan: It's going to be a massive breakthrough. I've taken many clients up on the trapeze and there's point where I don't want to freak you out right now, but you literally you're up on this pedestal and you have to lean out. If you were to stand up right now and learn forward all the way, you're going to fall forward. We've got you. We're holding the back of your safety belt and you literally have to let go of one of the bars to put your hands on the trapeze bar. This is where people kind of freak out, but it's just trusting. We've got your back and then you've got to be willing to take that leap and jump off the pedestal. It's scary and exhilarating at the same time and …
Melinda Wittstock: Exactly like entrepreneurship.
Allison Maslan: Exactly the same. It's so funny how I was attracted to this sport because I'm given the opportunity to face my fear. Every time I climb up that ladder, I'm always trying to accomplish the next trick or do it better or take it higher or have a better catch, but I fall many times. Talk about Scale or Fail, the title of my book, I've had many fails on the way to successes, but that is what makes it sweeter.
Melinda Wittstock: Or perhaps, we have to fail a little bit to be able to scale.
Allison Maslan: You do. I think it's really about instead of making it perfect before you launch, before you leap, it's perfecting along the way.
Melinda Wittstock: Right.
Allison Maslan: If I [inaudible [spp-timestamp time="00:26:35"] to the catcher and I'm a little to the right, I'm going to miss him. Or if I let go too soon, I'm going to go forward instead of up, so it's just like in business with a product launch. Let's say the packing is the wrong color or the headline no better is resonating with or you're talking to the wrong … You're talking to a target audience that has absolutely in interest in what you're selling. Doesn't mean that the product isn't good, it's just you're not, there's no demand there. You have to put it out there to see the response, gauge it, and tweak it and improve on it along the way.
Melinda Wittstock: I love that. The co-creating in essence with your customer. This is something that I see a lot of people, founders in the early stages of their businesses focusing so much on creating their perfect kind of product or app or service or technology or whatever without getting any input from the customer at all. I like how Reid Hoffman says it, the founder of LinkedIn and PayPal before. He says “If you're not embarrassed about your product when you launch, you've launched to late.”
Allison Maslan: Yeah. I've heard this before. It's so true. I love that.
Melinda Wittstock: Because you really need the feedback of the customer, so I think sometimes and I think this is true of men too, but it's especially true of women who we all have this perfectionist gene. We want to make it perfect before it's launched, but our vision of perfect could be really constrained. We really need the market to be able to tell us what's perfect for that particular market or for us to be able to find the product fit that's so critical as the sort of germination, if you will, of scale. People don't like it and if enough people don't like it, you're not going to get the scale.
Allison Maslan: Yeah. I think so many times business owners just give up. If it's not working, they think this thing doesn't work and I'm quitting.
Melinda Wittstock: Yeah.
Allison Maslan: To me, it's just you're just experimenting.
Melinda Wittstock: Yeah. You're a scientist in a lab. Right?
Allison Maslan: Yeah.
Melinda Wittstock: This is a hypothesis.
Allison Maslan: You know the story of Play-Doh?
Melinda Wittstock: Yes. I do know, but please share. I love this story.
Allison Maslan: Yeah. Well, they were a wallpaper cleaner. As kids were playing with this stuff, which I can imagine back then was pretty toxic, and so they realized that there was a little more demand in the toy market, and so they took a massive pivot and rebranded, made it colorful, took out the toxicity, and Play-Doh is still a top selling product. I don't know how many years, but probably at least 50 years it's been out there. They were willing to take the pivot. Talk about a completely different industry and a completely different market. Had they not and they said no we are cleaning wallpaper [inaudible [spp-timestamp time="00:30:00"].
Melinda Wittstock: Because cleaning wallpaper really makes your heart sing as opposed to making children happy. Yeah. That's so interesting, actually. Really being open if you don't know, if you're not really keeping tabs on the market and what the market thinks of your product, not just addressing the market size but just that connection. My goodness, you can really miss an opportunity and obviously give up too soon. I love that story and I reminded too of Twitter interesting enough went through seven different iterations. It started originally as a podcasting company [inaudible [spp-timestamp time="00:30:38"] enough. Their podcasting hadn't really taken off yet, so they were just too soon as a podcasting platform and hence Twitter. Now, there is probably space for a podcasting platform.
Allison Maslan: Well, Melinda, there you go.
Melinda Wittstock: There I go. Yeah, exactly.
Allison, it's true. There's so much potential in podcasting so just keeping your eyes and ears on the opportunity is so important and thinking big enough. I want to make sure that we have time though to get to phase five because we talked a little bit about this co-creator stage, what's phase five?
Allison Maslan: Well, phase five is where you get to step into the [inaudible [spp-timestamp time="00:32:11"] of why you started the business in the first place. Phase five is the visionary. In phase four, you really have developed leaders. They're stepping up. They're owning it. They're asking important questions and taking the pressure of your shoulders, such as how do we grow profits, how do we make a better customer experience? There's a point where you just realize they've got this. Phase five is the visionary and that's where you step back. Even though you can give your two cents on pretty much everything in your company, you don't. You just shut your mouth.
Melinda Wittstock: That takes some discipline.
Allison Maslan: Yeah. That's really hard. I do that with my team. I find that sometimes when I open my mouth, I just mess things up because they've already got it handled. We led an event last month and all of a sudden, I thought of something and I text the whole team on this thing that I thought we should do at the event and my admin team had already sent something out, but it was to be at a different date and time, so everybody got totally confused. They're like Allison, just please, just stay out of it.
Melinda Wittstock: Just stay out of it. I love that story. I think I've been guilty of that too, and it's really humbling in that moment. I think it reminds me of a very funny story about Google and Google X. Tom Chi, the founder of Google X, if you think about driverless cars and Google Glass, when they were doing their rapid prototyping process for Google Glass, they were trying to figure out what color it should be and the CEO of Google says, “They have to be red. Absolutely have to be red.”
So anyway, they go through their rapid prototyping process and find that red is the exact worst color for lots of reasons, not only just in terms of customer preference but also in terms of creating a quality product and so sometimes the pronouncement from the CEO on down, is really not the right one. It's just a hypothesis like anybody else's.
Allison Maslan: Yeah, it's true. I mean look, as you scale a business, you cannot have the same mindset that you did when you started. It's a whole different entity by the time you're scaling it.
Melinda Wittstock: Yes, yes. I mean, you have to let go of so much. I mean, we started this podcast talking about letting go and letting go on the trapeze and how it's easier to let go and yet we feel it's hard but we have to let go of so much, including our own limiting beliefs that keep us playing small.
Allison Maslan: Yeah, it is. We are usually the ones, in our own way, but it's not about being hard on ourselves, it's let's write a new story and we talked about, at the beginning of the interview, you can create that billion dollar company if you want to but not doing it the way that you've been doing it and so-
Melinda Wittstock: Well, that's for sure. If you keep doing what you're doing now, you'll stay probably where you are now. If you want something different you have to do something different and I am so, so happy that you have stepped up and written this wonderful book. I mean, it's so important, Allison, and your expertise at having scaled, what, ten businesses now? I'm so happy that you're sharing all this wisdom from your own entrepreneurial journey.
Allison Maslan: Yeah, it's so much fun. I had no idea when I started out that this was the way. My adventure would roll out and I'm so honored and very, very excited to share this book with your audience because you have some powerful women that are listening to your podcast and I want them to have the tools to be able to impact as many people as they can.
Melinda Wittstock: Yes, it's so, so important and of course this is your second book and your second bestseller and it's really important too for founders and CEO's to write books, to extend their influence and their impact. Give us a little bit of the behind the scenes on what it's been like, not only just getting in the habit of writing, but also all the promotion and everything that it takes to get it published and get it out there because that's probably even more work than actually writing it to begin with.
Allison Maslan: It really is and this book has been a long time in the works but I started putting pen to paper last December, so I think this is quite a record.
Melinda Wittstock: That's fast.
Allison Maslan: With a publisher, it's with Wylie, that it was actually starting to write and getting out within whatever, ten months? So, it's been quite a journey. I'll tell you, I feel quite, after this book, my business is going to be so easy to run without having a book to write and launch next year but it's worth every moment of hair pulling and all of that and now, I'm having so much fun with it.
I think the hardest part is sitting down and starting to write. We are so busy and there's a zillion reasons or a zillion other things that we have going on and distractions, it's never the right time but the publishing company had a deadline and it was like, Allison, you're going to lose this contract if you don't get it done by this date.
So, for me, that always works. I don't know about you but … So, here I would be away with my husband and I'm in the bathroom at 11 o'clock on the floor with my computer writing chapters.
But then once you get into the groove of it, once you get into that space, you just can't stop writing. The ideas just flow and it's really fun and as evolving I was like wow, this is really coming together. I had a great editor that I worked with as well and so I would send him things and he would work on the editing, so I didn't get caught up in oh is this a run on sentence, you know?
Then he would get it back to me and then I would send it back to him and so forth and we actually wrote the book starting the last week in December and by March 1st, the first whole draft was completely done and edited and got into the hands of the publisher and then we had probably five more versions over the last months, back and forth, you know, re-edits, and I had to cut 20,000 words, Melinda-
Melinda Wittstock: Oh, was that hard? Speaking of letting go, oh my goodness.
Allison Maslan: Oh, that was so painful because every word is chosen painstakingly, you know, who do I let go of first? [crosstalk [spp-timestamp time="00:40:49"].
But I did and I really got that because now it's pared down and it's more succinct and then the marketing process and I think this is an important part to note for anybody that wants to write a book because you have some great, great books out there that people don't know about because they haven't really marketed it, they just depended on the publisher and the publisher's really … they're only going to do so much.
So, just like we're on this podcast today, right, I'm sharing about my book and it's going to help, you know, of an awareness, and the author has to become a marketer because the book is a product.
Melinda Wittstock: Yes, it is a product and there is so much that goes into it but what a wonderful opportunity though to talk with so many people on podcast, I assume you'll do some television and some video and lots of print and social and all of that but getting your message out, if it's something that really, really matters to you, as this does, what a joy, you know, and I'm really hoping that you're enjoying that process because how wonderful to be helping so many people.
I think of how many people are going to read your book or listen to you, listen to you here or elsewhere, read your book and change the way that they're going to go about launching and growing and scaling their business. It's going to make a [crosstalk [spp-timestamp time="00:42:32"] big difference in a lot of people's lives. That's got to feel good, right? I just want to take a moment and celebrate that with you because it's-
Allison Maslan: Yeah, I'm so excited. I'm having a blast and even a month ago when you'd think that I would be pretty stressed with this going on and of course you're running the other aspects of your business and you have your personal life as well, I have felt so calm and so grounded. I was actually talking to a friend of mine that's written several books. She goes, “You need to teach that.” Like, “How did you do that?”
I think it's because I really feel like the timing is right for this book and it just feels right. I'm trusting the process. I'm not getting too hung up on the outcome. I just want to help as many people as I can and get this into the hands of the people that really need it and that's really what I'm focused on. I'm not worrying about all the little details. I do have an amazing team that we have built around the book and I'm following, you know, they're running with it so that I'm able to do things like this.
Yeah, it's a whole new adventure.
Melinda Wittstock: So Allison, thank you so much for coming on the podcast to talk about scale or fail on a busy day to say the least. It's launch day for you. I want to encourage everybody who's listening to Wings to go out and make sure you get Allison's book and we have some special links for you in the show notes because Allison, you're being very generous with Wings listeners today.
Allison Maslan: We have some super fun gifts that are also going to support you in your scale process. I so appreciate you having me on and so we're going to give some fun stuff away. We've got two different links. One is to get the book and then one is just another gift that we're sharing.
The first one is scaleorfail.com/wingsbook and that's where you can get the book from whatever bookseller that you want and by doing that on that link, you get the quick start guide, which is like the Cliffs Notes, but it's something that you can literally carry around, like a how-to guide to scale your business and there is a wonderful training, video training that comes with that and some other fun bonuses and then the gift is my 17 scale strategies to download to figure out which of those 17, because you only need one or two, please don't do them all, just one or two, that helps you to figure out which is the right direction and then I have a video training that goes with that and that's at scaleorfail.com/wingsgift.
Melinda Wittstock: Oh, lovely. Thank you so, so much Allison, for putting on your wings and flying with us today and congratulations once more on the book.
Allison Maslan: Oh, thank you so, so much. It really means a lot to me to be on here and connecting with your audience and helping them fly.
Melinda Wittstock: And of course, Allison, I know that you are going to be helping me to fly personally when I get on that trapeze of yours. I'm a little nervous but I know that I can fall and you have my back.
Allison Maslan: You know what would be so fun, Melinda, is if you got some wings, like if you could get some cut out wings and when you jump off the trapeze, you're literally going to have some wings on. That would be great.
Melinda Wittstock: Okay, I'm going to get my wings and I will see you soon and I will fly on the trapeze and I will do a little video and stick that on Facebook for everybody in the Wings community to take a look at me getting past a little bit of fear there, of flying.
Thank you so, so much again.
Allison Maslan: You're welcome. Take care, we'll talk to you soon, bye, bye.