416 Elisabeth Cardiello: Legacy Out Loud

What might it have meant for your confidence as an entrepreneur if  your father printed your first business cards for you at age 6 with your occupation listed simply as “the owner”? And what if he had you launching your first real business by age 13?

MELINDA

I’m Melinda Wittstock and today on Wings of Inspired Business we meet an inspiring entrepreneur whose Dad encouraged her in entrepreneurship from her earliest memories.

Elisabeth Cardiello is the CEO and Founder of a coffee company called Caffè Unimatic, and if you’ve seen the

Netflix documentary, “Coffee For All”, you may already know part of her story. Elisabeth was primed for business innovation from the tender age of 6. The most important thing she learned from her serial entrepreneur father was the mindset of curiosity and taking ownership of her own life and destiny. She had her first product line at 13, and her own innovations followed … until she, like most people, got trapped for a time living the “should” of working on Wall Street as a wealth manager. Along the way she experienced loss and post-traumatic stress, and through it found her true passion. It’s a potent mix of coffee … and a drive to educate young women find confidence in life and business … with Brave Conversations Over Coffee.

make sure you take a moment, follow Wings of Inspired Business on facebook @wingspodcast, Twitter @MelindaWings and Instagram @melindawittstock2020. And if you like what you’re hearing, please review us on iTunes so more women can find these amazing interviews and soar in business.

Now back to the inspiring Elisabeth Cardiello

Elisabeth’s mission lies at the intersection of coffee, confidence and communication. The way she speaks about coffee as the global symbol of connection, inspiration, and the opportunity for positive forward movement might make you see your daily morning ritual as something much more. This belief emanates from everything the company does, from their sales force to their coffee tastings. Currently she says she’s head-over-heels about the power of coffee as a ritual, the universal potential it has as an agent of change, facilitating “Brave Conversations Over Coffee®“ amongst groups within companies and schools with the belief that innovation, creativity and change will only happen when we can genuinely want the person sitting across the table from us, no matter how similar or different from us, to be well.

Elisabeth’s company, Caffè Unimatic, is born of a family legacy and a little girl’s dream. It boasts the last original drip-percolator coffee pots in the world, called “The Unimatic” and made in Italy in the 1960s. Reinventing the perking process together with a line of sustainable, impeccably roasted coffee blends, Caffe Unimatic creates a remarkably smooth and rich cup of coffee and with it a Fellowship Program called “Unimatic University that teaches college students communication skills and brain science through selling coffee. Elisabeth also co-founded

Legacy Out Loud, an education company that’s designed a methodology to help young women get an entrepreneurial spirit, figure out “who they want to be, what they want to give and what they want to leave behind in the world” through transformative immersion retreats and, not surprisingly, “Brave Conversations Over Coffee.

So are you ready for Elisabeth Cardiello? I am. Grab some coffee and Let’s fly!

Melinda Wittstock:         Elisabeth, welcome to Wings.

Elisabeth Cardiello:        Thank you so much for having me.

Melinda Wittstock:         I’m so excited to talk to anybody who had business cards at age six.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         I did.

Melinda Wittstock:         So what was the spark, do you think, that age six, you knew you were an entrepreneur?

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Well, I cannot take credit for this. I had nothing to do with those. My dad was an entrepreneur and he on his business cards, he had his name and the company. But on mine, what he did that was … I mean, he was doing it to make a point. And literally everything that man did was to teach me something. And I didn’t know that until relatively recently. On mine, he had my name, but beneath my name, he put one word. And he put the word ‘owner’. And I mean, at six, I have no concept of what that means. I mean, I just, I would fight with them and be like, “What do you mean? No, I’m not.” But the way that he raised me, he always said, I mean, “What’s mine is yours. And if you have an idea for this, I’ll listen to you. You get to tell me what to do. Like if you have an idea, we’ll talk about it, we’ll put it into practice, we’ll do it. So let me know.”

And he treated … I mean, he treated me like an adult since I was a little kid. And I mean, if I wanted to go to a sleepover, he would … And I would come to him with all the reasons why I wanted to go, he would say, “Those are great, but remember you’re trying to convince me to let you go. You’re asking my permission. So what you need to come to me with is not why you want to go, it’s why I should want to let you go. So go away, figure out those reasons and come back.”

Melinda Wittstock:         Wow, that’s amazing. I almost think every kid should go through your father’s like boot camp or something.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Literally why we started Legacy Out Loud.

Melinda Wittstock:         It’s so, so important. It’s interesting because when I interview so many successful female entrepreneurs, a lot of them do have fathers in particular and mothers that really encouraged them to either think outside the box or believe that they could do whatever they wanted to do, right?

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:         And believe that they could achieve. And it’s something that that runs through and … Because, we all get knocked off course in life, but if we have that grounded in us as young children, it never really goes away. It’s always kind of like a pilot light burning in there.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Right, right. Exactly. I mean, what we see in Legacy Out Loud with the women is we don’t ask, but every single one that comes in pretty competent has … Randomly, just by virtue of it’s true, makes mention of how supportive her dad is every time. And I actually started doing some research around, okay, so like what happened to the moms here? But interestingly, when you ask young men that question, they’ll often cite their moms for their strengths and their confidence. So there’s something there for sure.

Melinda Wittstock:         Yeah. That’s so interesting. And so what kind of business did your dad have?

Elisabeth Cardiello:         He had many. So he … I mean, when he got here, he always joked that he worked for someone for a few months and he was, I mean, like 14, and then made this guy an offer that he needed to become partner because he brought so many of the little Italian women to this little store. And the guy was like, “You’re a kid, that’s a joke. No, go away.” And so, he quit and he left and he took all of the little Italian women with him. And so this guy found him and was like, “So I actually … Okay, just come back. I’ll give you whatever you want, come back.”

So he would joke that he never worked for anybody in his life, which I mean, he was also a dude with an ego. But he had a cosmetic company, an advertising agency, a talent agency, a stainless steel cookware company, so like pots and pans for the kitchen. A restaurant, an athletic club that was kind of like the New York version of Soho House. Like there was a pool in it and it was just a place for the community to come together. He did all kinds … I mean, he was in intelligence for the army for a bit. He taught positive thinking to New York City cops when they would retire off the force. And then a lot of them were actually just on suicide watch because they would give back their badge and that gun and then completely lose their identity because their identity was, “I am here to protect and to serve, and if you take that away from me, who am I?”

Often times, he would be called in to … I mean, he was the most random person on the face of the planet. And just a very colorful life.

Melinda Wittstock:         That’s just such a beautiful story. I love this.

Melinda Wittstock:         So how old were you when you launched your first business?

Elisabeth Cardiello:         I’m going to say I was about 13. Because of his stainless steel cookware company, we started … I mean, it wasn’t fancy by any stretch of the imagination, but it was a cleaner for pots and pans. Like it was a stainless steel cookware cleaner. And he made me name it and design the packaging and choose the packaging and go trademark the name and all of the things, and decide on pricing.

And to be honest, I didn’t like it. It wasn’t fun. And I kind of kicked and screamed a little bit when he would make me do it. And the next one was a soccer business, and that one was a lot more interesting because I really love soccer, so that worked. And it was a scientific way of teaching ball control, so he came up with a bunch of win or lose games and it was my favorite thing. And then … And I loved it, but interestingly, not enough that it would keep me up at night. And maybe I was just really mature, because teenager.

Melinda Wittstock:         Yeah, like it’s not like they’re not like a lot of other things that you want to be involved in. Like what … Your friends around you at that time, what did they think? Right? Because I can’t imagine a lot of other kids were going through the same things as you.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         No, nobody was told they couldn’t go on … I forget when it was, but it was some vacation. Everyone was gone to like … I don’t know, Florida or something. And I was told I wasn’t allowed to go because I had to finish writing a patent. And I was like, “Dad, come on. You’re the worst.” I mean, as much as I speak so wonderfully of him, we fought so much because he raised me to be him and have opinions and then you would try and tell me what to do and say, “Absolutely not.” I mean, I did not go, I did write the thing. But yeah, I was always a little bit weird, and I don’t think I really talked about it very much because I think I tried a few times and nobody really understood and then [inaudible 00:21:26].

Melinda Wittstock:         That persists into adult life, right? When you’re around a bunch of civilians, as I call them, people who are not entrepreneurs. And bless them, they try and understand but they don’t really.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         They’re great in their own right and we need a lot of them because there are things like accounting that you don’t want to trust me to do, ever. But it was interesting to be a kid and to be realizing, you’re a wonderful person, I adore you and I can’t talk to you about everything, because there’s just a part of your brain that like you’re much more left-brained, I’m much more right-brained. We can come together and be a fantastic team and yet you’ll never fully understand me, or as you are right now, you just … We’re not, we’re not there.

Melinda Wittstock:         So somehow despite all this entrepreneurial training, okay, you end up on Wall Street?

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Melinda Wittstock:         Why? Was that a should? Was that something you thought you should do or was it something you really wanted to do?

Elisabeth Cardiello:         No, no. It was not something I wanted to do. If I’m being really honest, so when I was 10, my dad was in a car accident and had brain surgery. When I was 16 maybe, something like that, he had quadruple bypass surgery on his heart. And then when I was, I guess, like 21 or 22, I was a senior in college, he had aneurysms on his aorta. And he went in for like an aorta … I mean, it’s called an aortic replacement. So they cut him open, detached all of his organs from the largest artery in your body, your aorta, and put in a fake one and reconnect it. And I just … And none of the things were connected. Like these were three, these were very separate occurrences.

And I was heading for the LSAT and I was thinking I could go to law school before I do something business wise. And I didn’t have an idea that I was obsessed with. There was nothing that kept me up at night that had to do with business. And if I’m being really honest, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I didn’t like any of the internships that I had, and I ended up jumping on the bandwagon. My college started a pretty interesting, but for better or for worse, I like being original. I like being part of the things … I like starting things. So when my professor who was the head of the business department who became the head of the business school, when he said, “Okay, we’re starting an MBA program. We’re going to pilot it. It’s going to be one year. We’re going to go all in.”

He was a partner at Morgan, at Lehman, and it sounded really interesting. Like the subject matter and the fact that I would get to help structure it and build it and build it out and just be part of the beginning of something sounded really interesting. And I didn’t love the work that I had done. I didn’t love the businesses that I had started. I just wasn’t … I knew that that wasn’t going to be it for me. So I went, I got my MBA, and interestingly, even after that, I didn’t have a thing yet. And so, I kind of defaulted to, okay, what do you do when you’re top in your class and everyone around you has been successful in finance and they keep sending you in that direction because that’s what they know and they want the best for you, and the best that they know is finance? I did the thing that a lot of type A New Yorkers do, which was go try to get the hardest job possible and see if you can get it.

Melinda Wittstock:         And what was that for you? What were you doing on Wall Street?

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Interestingly, my two job offers were fixed income sales and trading, well fixed income sales, and private wealth. And I was offered both. The fixed income sales job was so much more prestigious. And even the MD that interviewed me said, “We’ve literally never had someone turn down this position.” And spoiler alert, I was the first one. For better or for worse. It just … I wasn’t … Because I knew I didn’t love finance, I just wasn’t excited by learning bond math. And it didn’t feel portable to me. And every single person around me said, “No, no, no, no, no. Take that job. It’s one of the best teams on the street. You got to do this.”

And that was the one time I trusted my intuition, in a very early age that, thank God served me, I ended up going into private wealth. And not that that was a bad job, it wasn’t, it was just nowhere near as prestigious and a much longer trajectory and like, who’s going to give it 23-year-old $1 million to manage? I looked 12, I sounded even younger. Come on, like that’s just not reality. But it felt like I wanted to surround myself with that kind of knowledge. And luckily, I did, because after losing my dad at 26, because I went through that, because I knew the terminology, because I’d surrounded myself with those things, like what to do. I mean, I wanted to learn what to do with money when you made it obviously. Because I plan on having a business, I just … And it felt smarter and to learn what to do with money than figure out derivative sales. I don’t know, it just-

Melinda Wittstock:         Right. No, no, smarter. I mean, so I totally understand your decision because ultimately I think you must have known in your heart that you’re an entrepreneur. And gosh, one of the things that entrepreneurs are actually, a lot of them actually surprisingly bad at is managing money. God, heck, a lot of women, a lot of men too like don’t know their numbers, don’t actually like if you ask them where you are in your business right now, that I wouldn’t be able to tell you, I wouldn’t be looking at the numbers, wouldn’t have like a … I like to call it a number story. I mean, where are you going? Where do you want to be? How are you doing against that? All that kind of stuff. And being able to manage it, being able to get passive income. Being able to figure out all these different points of leverage in your business.

And so, the best entrepreneurs have that skill or they learn it or they pay someone to bring it, right? But perhaps that might have been why. Like it sounds like you intuitively knew that would be a big asset to the business, that you were ultimately going to grow.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Yes. And I will also say, after losing my dad, my mom is the most amazing mom and is also not a business person. And there was a reason that my dad raised me to be him because I’m an only child and I had to unwind businesses, figure everything out, figure out income for her, like it was very sudden and nothing was planned for. So there was no will, like there was, literally, I mean I was just handed a mess. And it was because I took that job that everyone told me not to take that … I mean, my mom always jokes that I’m somewhat of a witch, that I have some kind of a sixth sense, that there are weird decisions that have not made sense looking forward. But in hindsight, they were the thing I had to do.

And so, I mean, I’m so grateful that I did it that way because I did know the lingo. I could interface with the attorneys, the accountants, the whomever, the department of buildings. Whomever it was, and I knew I could handle myself at minimum.

Melinda Wittstock:         Yeah, exactly. That’s awesome. So Elisabeth, what led you to launch Caffè Unimatic? I mean, you must obviously be a coffee lover first off.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Yeah. Well, I mean, I always loved coffee. My dad would always put coffee in my milk when I was a kid. Being Italian also kind of doesn’t hurt. But that was, to be honest, it was while I was cleaning out his old office and leasing it and figuring out an income from my mom. And I mean, I had an idea for a co-working space back in like 2010, and those didn’t really exist then, being an entrepreneur wasn’t really cool then. It was just … But it was the thing that I grew up knowing and since I didn’t know what I wanted to do, I figured, I’ll just create a space for other people who do know what they want to do, so at least I’ll be around it, right? And then very quickly realized that starting a business and my mom relying on it too was just not prudent at all.

So my dad’s last words to me were, “Take care of your mom,” and I think subconsciously I took that even more seriously than I realized. And so, when I made the decision to shelf the business plan and just [inaudible 00:30:33], move forward and like figure myself out after I figured her out I … It was about two weeks after, I want to say, and we were in this now, his office was in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn where I grew up and I don’t know what the 60s smelled like, I wasn’t alive, but I can guarantee you that this place still smelled like the 60s. Like this place was like a time warp. He kept things that I don’t know why he would keep. I mean, a few cars, a boat, a wheelbarrow full of nails, checks in the desks like from the 50s and 60s, like people got up one day and never came back.

Like was the weirdest, I mean, stationary from every possible thing that he ever incorporated. I mean, just all kinds of craziness. I mean, I-beams from when he like reinforced the other building, but like kept [inaudible 00:31:27]. Who, what, why? Why would one do that? And so I opened this door that he always called the inventory closet, and I expected to find old cosmetics that I could never put on my face now but wanted to look at, and cookware and just old stuff. And when I opened the door, what I was met with was a wall of boxes.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         And so when I opened it to make sure that everything was out and that we could use the space, I was met with a wall of boxes. And they’re boxes of this coffee pot that I was very familiar with. We had one on our table since before I was born, called Unimatic. He essentially helped create it. So because he was from Italy and because he had a cookware, which was his cookware company, he sort of amassed like a little bit of everything. So it was [inaudible 00:34:08] I guess [inaudible 00:34:09].

And he hated American coffee because American coffee, I mean, he said like tastes like dishwater and-

Melinda Wittstock:         Yeah.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Not in Italy, I mean, yeah, you get it. It’s still not very good. And so I think he was so proud to be here and he was so proud to be an American citizen that he didn’t just say, “Well, drink Italian coffee.” He wanted to do something that improved American coffee. So he kind of put together the percolator that was popular at the time. And a little bit of the way the drip machine works and also brought in some ideas from the way his mom’s stove worked back in Italy, like it was like in late 1800s still, and he put them together and he made this coffee pot, called Unimatic. And it makes the smoothest coffee you’ll ever have. And I mean, and it was my favorite thing.

Like I knew the thing backwards and forwards. When friends would come over and we’d be at dessert time, he would go through the entire way the thing worked. And I’d be like, “Dad, we’re 10, we just want ice cream. Please stop embarrassing me.” Like wanted to crawl beneath the table. Nope, he had to explain it every single time. And so, I knew this thing really well. And so I started taking the boxes out of the closet thinking, “Great score, wedding gifts for a year, done, easy. Move on.”

And [inaudible 00:35:36] four-ish, well it turned out that it was not the of a closet, it was the door to essentially a warehouse. I didn’t realize how far that room went back, and it was just filled to the brim with these common pots that were made in Italy back in the 60s. Great condition, just dusty, [inaudible 00:35:57] home.

Melinda Wittstock:         How serendipitous.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:         I love it. We could talk for hours. I’m fascinated by your coffee packaging and these archetypes of confident women, because so much about your brand connects with your life story, but you also go into these archetypes of women, like; creative, explorer, pioneer. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         It was one of those things where you close your eyes and you think about something and you ponder it for so long. And I was trying to figure out what this packaging would be. And I knew it was vintage poster style because everything is from the 60s, like the pot’s from the 60s. Like it just, it all needed to be from years past. And because … So it started with the names of the blends. So there’s medium blend, where there’s Brunetta, which means a brunette and [inaudible 00:37:47]. Bionda means blonde, so like a blonde roast. And Mora means dark hair, so a dark-haired woman.

So we had the blonde, the medium and the dark roast, but we just named them as women and their colors of hair were indicative of the strength of the coffee. So that’s kind of how it started. And then, that was just too much fun and I wanted to build out more of, okay, so who is Bionda? Like who is Brunetta? Well, what are they like? And because we … So then of course there are tasting notes associated with coffee, kind of like wine. And from each of the tasting notes, you can actually start to see what they’re like, or I could. I mean, as a very right-brained individual, I could start to see how they looked. And it was really out of the tasting notes that we started thinking through, “Okay, well if she was a person, what would she be like?”

And they each had elements of different people and just qualities of, what would I want to drink in this morning? Like, who would I want to be this morning? And because we all are confident and capable, and every day you sometimes need to [inaudible 00:39:06] a different version of confident and capable, and whether you’re a creative who is wants strength and grace, and she … And I came up with little stories for each of them. And it just felt like it was something that people could love themselves and drink in themselves, but also be able to gift and say, “She reminds me of you.” And it just felt like it embodied them a little bit better. Because to me, I mean, this whole … Everything meant so much to me that it, I guess it almost felt like I needed to make them mean something to other people as much as they meant to me.

And that may never happen, but I wanted to make it … I wanted to make people feel something when they drank their coffee and take a second look. Because often times we just, we don’t think about it. We just make it, we do it and it’s mindless. And yet it’s the one ritual that we actually have and do every day. So instead of, I’m going to the length of creating a new habit and going to the … Like why? We have one. Let’s just be more intentional about how we spend that time and the intention we’re setting for ourselves in the day.

So there is the creative and then the explorer and the pioneer. And interestingly, I was purposeful about this, but I don’t think people really see it. So Mora is the explorer, and in the archetype it says she’s a trailblazer, a pioneer, a future space tourist. So she’s the pioneer. She’s the one forging new ways forward, right? And so, she’s exploring galaxies in the universe and she’s the one blazing a trail forward. And then Bionda is the explorer, and she explores the world and culture and she’s the one that can actually create [inaudible 00:40:56] with all kinds of people. And she’s about people and the planet and she cares so much about the world that we live in. And so she’s exploring our planet.

And Brunetta wants strength and grace and she’s the one that’s kind of exploring the depths of herself. And so, they’re all explorers, but we need to kind of put on a different hat depending on who we are that day. But it felt like there are really three places to explore, inside, outside, and the larger [inaudible 00:41:28].

Melinda Wittstock:         I love it. I mean, it’s so important too, just in your branding and your marketing, to really know your avatar and who you’re selling to. But also to have, what I like about this too is that you have a mission that’s beyond just the transactional value of the coffee, right?

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:         That the coffee isn’t just a drink to feel more awake in the morning or whatever, or because like … Well, I’ll speak for myself, because we’re addicted. I mean, it really is a way to connect people and connect people to higher concepts and whatnot as well. So tell me a little bit about Brave Conversations and what made you take a leap in that direction?

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Brave Conversations really came from watching … Well, I mean my background is people and just the way my dad raised me, my mom too. And it always, for a while I think I had the imposter syndrome of, well this is his, this is his idea. This isn’t mine, I can’t take credit for it. And of course I created the coffee and I did a lot of things, but it still felt like, well this is more his story. And when we launched Brave Conversations Over Coffee, it was really because I started seeing so many conversations in the world that weren’t being had, and whether it’s part of the Me Too Movement, whether it’s part of what’s going on with guys, whether it’s part of school shootings, whether it’s mental health, it’s creativity, I mean also delve pretty deeply into positive psychology and neuroscience. And just getting to know the brain, we can’t be in a state of creativity and connection and problem solving when we are in a state of stress or anger or fear. It just, I mean, the chemicals in our body, we secrete hormones to literally shut those things down so that we can run from the tiger that’s chasing us, right?

So to get from the place of stress and fear and anger and all of those things, I became curious about, well there are ways to turn off the stress response [inaudible 00:43:40] keep it to ourselves, and what kept recurring to me is that there are so many underlying questions that aren’t being asked. And one of my highest values is curiosity in the world. And I was always that kid that asking the questions that people will look at me twice and kind of go “Well, what do did she just say?” And I mean Legacy Out Loud was built around asking young women questions like, “Who you want to be and what do you want to leave behind?”

And after writing my dad’s eulogy, I wrote my own. And I mean, I’m guessing I’ve heard rumors of 100 people write their own eulogies as well, which is ridiculous and weird and I can totally acknowledge that. But Brave Conversations Over Coffee came from seeing that the world is at one supremely connected and also supremely [inaudible 00:44:27]. And knowing that we can fight and we can march and we can enact legislation and do all of those things, but until we can just genuinely look across the table from someone and just genuinely want them to be well, no matter how similar or different they or their views are from us, I mean it’s not sustainable unless we can do that. We can make anything a law, but it’s not sustainable and it won’t actually multiply and continue until we can untangle our self concept from, well if you’re good, that means I’m bad because we’re different.

And the foundation of humans and mental health and creativity is actually opening yourself to be, dare I say, a little bit vulnerable. And really figure out, well what is it? Am I acting from a place of love or a place of fear? And then [inaudible 00:45:23] places we can act from. And I mean my … Because of my dad, but also one of my mentors was a hostage negotiator. So a lot of the way that I … And because of him, I realized that a lot of the way my dad taught me to communicate is because he was trying [inaudible 00:45:40] and that case, and flipped it to [inaudible 00:45:43] those things, but it’s the way that we communicate is, we’re not taught how to communicate. It’s all wrong. And I think that’s a crime. I mean, I think we need to teaching our young people and each other how better to do that.

So a lot of Brave Conversations Over Coffee is there’s a bit of facilitation, there’s an entire structure, but there’s a bit of facilitation and just opening the space for people to really answer and really listen and really learn how to do that for themselves, but also for others.

Melinda Wittstock:         I think generally in life, I mean, our biggest enemy usually is fear, and often it’s a subconscious one. And so, how that plays out and how we overcome it and whatnot is a much longer conversation. And I know that we’ve barely scratched the surface, Elisabeth, in this call because there’s so much in your life and so much in your business and so much inspiration. I would love to have you back in another couple of months and go a little bit deeper on some of these themes. But my goodness, first of all, I just want to thank you and also make sure that everybody can find you and work with you and where they go to see the documentary, obviously look you up on TEDx, but also get your coffee and find out more about Brave Conversations.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Totally. So they can go to caffeunimatic.com. And that’s spelled C-A-F-F-E U-N-I-M-A-T-I-C dot com, @caffeunimatic on all of the socials. And they can either contact us through there or DM us through there or whatever it is. Brave Conversations is actually under the hour legacy tab. So you’ll see that when you’re on the website. And we’d love for you to get to know Brunetta and Bionda and Mora, and I mean, people are still adopting Unimatic all over the world. And it’s amazing. We get notes and thank you notes from people that have adopted Unimatic into their family. And because they know the story, they say things like, “Unimatic saved our family, and like the Unimatic is part of my healing.” And it just, it’s such an honor to be part of people’s mornings in that way. And I mean, if I could … If I knew this 10 years ago, I would’ve laughed at myself.

I’m honored to be doing what I’m doing. So thank you so much for letting me share my story.

Melinda Wittstock:         That’s wonderful, Elisabeth, thank you so much. You’re an inspiration.

Elisabeth Cardiello:         Thank you. So are you.