401 Rachael Jayne Groover: Divine Breadcrumbs
Why do some people seem to have a natural charisma and others do not? Some make speaking a stage look effortless … while for others, even the most brilliant, struggle to be seen and heard.
I’m Melinda Wittstock and today on Wings of Inspired Business we meet an inspiring entrepreneur who began her career as a singer-songwriter.
Rachael Jayne Groover became fascinated by why some performers had an incredible stage presence, while others, who might have been technically brilliant, did not. She came to realize that anyone could learn the key factors that create “stage presence” in a performer, and use them to stand out, be seen, and inspire others in any situation. Rachael Jayne is the creator of the Art of Feminine Presence® classes and trainings offered worldwide, by herself and over 300 certified coaches – helping women to increase their personal presence, individual magnetism, and their leadership ability so they can be seen, inspire change, and create wealth…in all ways.
Before I share this conversation with Rachael Jayne Groover I want to take a moment and appreciate all the women who last week participated in a truly transformational retreat – my own Wings of The Empowered Woman. Words are not usually hard for me, and I struggle now to find the words to express the overwhelming gratitude I feel for the inspirational women entrepreneurs who each gave and received with open hearts.
The result was beyond my wildest expectations and I was blown away by the fact that 100% of our guests said the Retreat was transformational, “a life changing experience”, and the best retreat they had been to. These accolades from women like Amilya Antonetti, who has built and sold 6 businesses for 9-figure sums, Jane Deuber, who has built, scaled and sold multiple businesses, and Jules Schroeder, who herself with Unconventional Life is celebrated as hosting the best entrepreneurial retreats on the planet.
Last week we gathered at a beautiful boutique spa resort in Scottsdale Arizona for business epiphanies, biohacking, healing and deep connection … and simply, I was moved to tears with the outcome. Seeing the aha’s , the renewed purpose, the deep connection between women and so much more… tears me up all over again.
And we’re doing it again in November. Apply at wingsexperiences.com/apply
Now back to the inspiring Rachael Jayne Groover.
Rachael Jayne is the best-selling author of “Powerful and Feminine: How to Increase your Magnetic Presence and Attract the Attention You Want” as well as her latest release “Divine Breadcrumbs: A Search for True Love and Enlightenment.”
Overcoming stage-fright and enormous fear of rejection, Rachael Jayne became an award-winning vocalist, and finished her full-time singing career performing to a live audience of 40,000 people, before making the leap to live in the USA and become an inspirational speaker and personal development trainer.
She now travels the world teaching women how to increase their personal presence, individual magnetism, and their leadership ability so they can be seen, inspire change, and create wealth…in all ways.
She is the creator of the Art of Feminine Presence® classes and trainings that are offered worldwide, by herself and over 300 certified teachers working with her. This work helps women to stop hiding, to get the brakes off, and to become an unshakeable and fully expressed woman.
At the fundamental level of all Rachael Jayne’s programs and presentations is a core purpose — to accelerate spiritual awakening, human potential, and raise global consciousness.
So ready to fly with Rachael Jayne Groover? I am – let’s fly!
Rachael Jayne Groover
Rachael Jayne Groover is the best-selling author of Powerful and Feminine: How to Increase your Magnetic Presence and Attract the Attention You Want. A singer-songwriter turned entrepreneur, Rachael Jayne discovered anyone could learn and leverage the key factors that create “stage presence” in a performer, and use them to stand out, be seen, and inspire others in business. She talks about her entrepreneurial journey, why women are being called to lead in business, plus her latest book Divine Breadcrumbs: A Search for True Love and Enlightenment.
Melinda Wittstock: Rachael Jayne, welcome to Wings.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Thank you Melinda. Great to be here.
Melinda Wittstock: I'm excited to have you. You got started in a very interesting way. And I want you to describe that beginning, I guess, of your entrepreneurial journey.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Yeah, well I thought I wanted to be a social worker and save the planet early on. And then I realized I don't know. I think I'm too much of a performer and want to be on stage too much. So I decided to take my shot at being a singer and being a performer. I love being on stage, but at the same time I hate it because I don't like the spotlight on me very much. But then I really love it, and then I don't love it, then I really do love it. And I think that a lot of women entrepreneurs can very much relate to this wanting to be seen in a larger way and not wanting to be seen in a larger way because that brings up all of our stuff.
Melinda Wittstock: That's so interesting you say that because I see so many women who are actually rather afraid to step into the light. And I'm curious what you think the root of that fear is.
Rachael Jayne Groover: I think it is the fear of judgment and the idea of not belonging. I mean every day in small ways, most people substitute true joy, true worth, true dreams, for comfort and belonging. How can we just belong and not be cast out? And that is very primal in us that we don't want to be judged.
Melinda Wittstock: Yeah, it is like being cast out of the tribe. We have this inner voice or perhaps this completely submerged subconsciously where we think women won't like us, or men won't be attracted to us. Or something bad will happen if we succeed. Almost like, I guess there's a scarcity belief underneath that, that if we succeed in business or publicly we get famous for something, then there'll be some bill that comes due like a trade off in some other area of our lives.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Absolutely. And that's a psychological dynamic that just goes with our ego structure. It's not going anywhere. It's that other shoe is going to drop syndrome. Or if we get too amazing, someone's going to try to pull us down. And being in Australia, and I don't live there anymore. But we have there what we call the tall poppy syndrome. And this goes directly to this. I mean if you grow taller than anyone else, well watch out. We're going to just cut you down to size a little bit. So I grew up very much in that a little bit English type culture of don't be too much. Be modest, don't brag. So I always laugh when I'm speaking to big audiences of what did I do to get over my fear of shining and being bigger? Well, I just moved to America.
Melinda Wittstock: Oh my goodness. Well I did that as a Canadian, so I totally know. We have that in common. And I lived in England for a long time, and I was quite stunned by just how rigid that class system is. Where you're really supposed to stay in your place or stay in your lane. And entrepreneurs can't succeed if we stay in our lane. We're supposed to be, I'm going to mix metaphors here, but we're supposed to be coloring outside the lines.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Exactly. Exactly. And I was sort of doing that when I had my music career. This is back 16, 17 years now. But I got a little sick of it and a little burned out because I wanted to make a difference in some way. I was a little bit sick of just entertaining people for entertainment's sake. So that was another reason why I wanted to move to America. Because at the time, I was just loving personal development, but there was not a whole lot that was happening there. And I was happily stuck watching Oprah when she started bringing on all those Gary Zukavs, and Dr. Phil, and all those way back in the day. And I remember being glued to the TV going, “These Americans are amazing. They're so conscious. Oh my gosh.” And then of course, I move here and realize that's only half the story.
Melinda Wittstock: Well, it is half the story. There are examples in this culture of people who are wildly resistant to this sort of spiritual growth. We have one in the White House. And it's interesting how society polarizes around that. At a certain point, entrepreneurship tests you so much, that you do make a choice. Either you go on that journey, and you really grow, and you take it on. And you learn how to get past all these limiting beliefs, and blocks, and the way we've been acculturated. Or, you accept it like it is. And increasingly, I think the people who don't take that spiritual leap are having a harder and harder time in business.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Absolutely. Absolutely. This is my belief about life itself is that it is on an expansion trajectory. It is wanting to expand. Life is wanting to expand. Entrepreneurship is expansion itself. Not from a place of I've got to have more, otherwise I'm not happy. So as that expansion is happening, if you're not stepping into your next calling, your soul's calling really, it's going to hurt. You digress because you're not moving with the natural flow of life. And then that is scary. There's certain things going on in my business right now that are new and that are very exciting, but it's completely new territory. I've been doing seminars and trainings all around the world for many years. That's the easy part now. But I can feel that if I don't go for it, it's like I'm missing the train and it's going to hurt. Or it hasn't in the past when I rejected my soul's call.
Melinda Wittstock: Well, this is the funny thing about entrepreneurship, right? This is what keeps us, I don't know. Humble I guess is the word. That once you've mastered something, to get to the next stage, whatever that may be for you. It might be a scaling issue for your business. Or it might just be that your soul is being called in a different direction or whatever. But whatever that next stage is, it requires you to abandon what's working.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Absolutely. Just when you think it's all going to be fine now for the rest of your business life. And then it just turns around. And absolutely, it's been that for me. At the core of what I talk about and teach women is visibility. It's how can I be seen and heard in a larger way, in a way that feels good to my soul? And women right now, the world is very, very desperate for feminine leaders who have the guts and the ability to be present and magnetic, and share a message with authority. And with edge, not just lovely, lovely. But to do that in whatever business you're in, listening in here, you've got to become more visible. And there is nothing than visibility and being out there, that plugs you in more and pushes the buttons.
Melinda Wittstock: Oh, it's true. These days, every woman entrepreneur I know, including me. We all grow our businesses so much more successfully when we're speaking from stages, when we're selling from stages. When we're getting keynotes, and TEDx's, and all those things. Coming on podcasts, launching podcasts. Doing things really to be seen and heard. And the more that we step into that in an authentic feminine way. I like to call it feminine power, which is not an oxymoron. And I've been intrigued for 20 odd years now about what that meant to really leverage femininity as power. And I know that you've written on this, I'm curious your thoughts. What does it mean to you, feminine power?
Rachael Jayne Groover: Well, I like pulling apart the word feminine to the words yin and yang. Because the yin and yang is this polarity in life. We have the hot and the cold, the light and the dark, the night and the day. And a lot of times when people are talking about the feminine, they're talking about yin aspects of life. The receptive, the in the flow versus being so directive and so active, and push, and all of that. It's the internal time, the intuitive time, the emotional versus just the logical and all of those things.
But to me, that's not what feminine is. In the work, at least that I do with the Art of Feminine Presence trainings. The feminine is a way that your energy works within your body and your energetic field. So I can be very directive, very edgy, very focused, very logical as well as emotional. And be running the energy of feminine through my body. So I sound more authentic, I look more authentic. I'm not trying to be a man while I'm trying to lead, and run the business, and all of that. And that's where I find a lot of women don't even understand that because they might be very yin in their life, like emotional, and receptive, and all of that. But they can't step into the next level of authority in their marketplace because they actually don't have enough yang. And a lot of women come to our events and realize, “Oh my gosh, I've really disconnected from the feminine. I'm neutral. I'm asexual, even though I feel like I've got this good balance of yin and yang.” So I like having both of those conversations, because I feel a lot of women getting sick, getting stressed. They're having illness because of the way their energy is running in their body.
Melinda Wittstock: This is really, really intriguing to me. Because gosh, about three years ago now, I went on this amazing trip into the Amazon rainforest. And I was with Pachamama Alliance. We were with this tribe that only met the outside world at that time, only 20 years ago. And plant medicine was part of the journey. And I remember the revelation that I had was so much about that balance of the masculine and feminine energy. It was like this spiritual download that if you looked at the rainforest or you looked all around at nature, it was in this perfect balance. As a woman, you could be fully realized. In your femininity, be kind of sensual and all these sorts of things. But still have authority.
And fast forward three years, I had the just a couple of months ago, time with a very powerful female shaman who was the epitome of exactly that. Everybody in the room listened to her more than the men. She was so strong, and yet soft. It's hard to describe, but beautiful.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Yes. Well that's the heart of Art of Feminine Presence. It's like what the practices that women need to do to get in their body first, to get understanding their energy field and how it repels or attracts? How to have that come through their voice, and how to deal with the fear and the shadows that come up in the meantime of becoming a very different energy when she walks into a room.
Melinda Wittstock: It's true. I've raised a lot of money in tech startups. I'm a tech entrepreneur primarily. And just that struggle for women to raise venture capital. Women, even with very scalable technology businesses still only get 2% of the venture capital money in this country. Which is crazy. So for some time I've been thinking well, what is it? I mean there are certain external things. Just that bias, I guess that women face when they walk into a room of a whole bunch of dudes in their khakis in Sand Hill Road, and what that means. And there've all kinds of studies that women tend to get asked questions that put them on the defensive. So we know that all that's going on.
But then I also think, what is it about the women? Because I think, and I know this is true of me in an earlier incarnation. Is that the only role models we had were men. So the tendency was to go in there like a man. And it doesn't work because it's not authentic.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Exactly. Exactly. And it's still happening in a big way. Even in the entrepreneurial space of business coaches, or life coaches. Many of them end up in a training of ours because they want to speak on stage, or have a bigger presence, and those sorts of things. But they're still trying to do it from a manly place in a way. They look feminine. They might sound feminine, but it's still whatever age they are, that way. And I think it really is important again to see what the difference is of being in your body, in your energy field as feminine. And then balancing the yin and yang. So there is softness and there is edge, there is all authority and bossy.
And there is I am ready to follow and learn, and all of the things. Which is why we do a lot of shadow work in our work because it's what are you not able to embody? What are you resisting? What is unconscious in you? Because what is unconscious in you, everyone else sees, unfortunately. And it might come out as defense or a bit aggressive. Because a woman actually has not owned her aggression. Has not owned her power. So there's a lot of work to do here, and it's a wonderful thing when I hear men, and I hear many of them say when a woman walks in the room who is in her feminine power, that she can have that edge as well. They prefer it.
Melinda Wittstock: So Rachael Jayne, you have a really intriguing background because you're a singer, a musician, a performer, and you got your start that way. And I'm curious what of that, what did you learn on the stage that now inspires you and helps you with your own presence, but helping other women into theirs?
Rachael Jayne Groover: Yeah. Well, when I first started my, what was the life coaching business in the beginning. Just not having any clue of what I wanted to do, except I want to make a difference and I want to help people on their personal and spiritual journeys. I realized that I needed a lot of presence to get people's attention. It's one thing to start a business. But when I realized that attention is the most valuable currency in business, if you can't get it and hold it, you have nothing. And that again, went up to my whole [inaudible [spp-timestamp time="00:27:10"] fear of oh gosh, I got to get people's attention.
But when I realized that after many years of struggling in business not having the confidence or the clues and the strategy of how to do it, I realized I was good at that back when I was singing. So can't I bring that into my work? And I studied and taught stage presence, and performance, and what moves people emotionally back in Australia. So I started putting together these 44 practices, which is now called the Art of Feminine Presence. And I was my first Guinea pig. I would practice them. I would go out, maybe network, or do a little mini speech or something. And I would play with these practices. And very quickly people were always saying, “Wow, you have such magnetism.” And, “Wow, that was the best speech I ever heard.” And I was like, “Okay, well these practices are working,” because I was using that.
And the other thing that I've really brought forward is you have to be able to move people emotionally. And a lot of people are not doing that. When I see entrepreneurs on video or on stage, it's like one head bubble talking to a bunch of head bubbles in the room. Or one head on a stick on a camera talking about information, and this is what we should do, and all of that. But really not embodying what needs to happen for the person listening to feel. I mean they've got to feel something pretty deeply if they are going to move or take action in your business, or getting venture capital. It is a logical conversation at a certain degree, but it's still more emotional than logical. And people don't know how to move people emotionally, which is something that I've been able to do for many years. And to teach women how to do that, but not from a manipulative stance. Just get them emotional so you can sell them something. But how does that come in with authentic presence, and authority, and having people go, “Wow, I really need to do this, and I need to do it now.” How to create the urgency. And that's all part of the old performing days, really.
Melinda Wittstock: So give us an example of how to, what's a strategy or a tactic? What can we do to get that emotional connection on a stage?
Rachael Jayne Groover: Yeah. So the first practice that I like going to is what I call the womb space. So most of the people I'm working with are women. And the Art of Feminine Presence is women only because we go pretty deep with the work. And the womb space is really lower dantian if you're a yoga person or Tai-Chi person. Second chakra. And it's getting a woman to ground into that place while attention is on her. Because it's one thing to do it while you're meditating, but when you've got eyes of 20, 30, 100 people on you, what happens is the woman will shoot out into what I called the head bubble. Which is up above her head and forward. And that's where most people speak. You can see it all over the place.
So we do a practice where you feel what the head bubble feels like, and then come back into womb space, which is three or four inches below the navel back toward the spine.
So Melinda, I'll just talk to you in head bubble for a moment and you probably, everyone will hear the difference. But not just hear where my voice changes. I want you to feel how you experience me and what changes in our relationship. How do you feel different towards me?
So I pop up until the head bubble, and it's so great to be here, Melinda. Thanks so much for having me. It's great to know a little bit more of what you're doing as well. I hope everyone's having a great day. Yes, I'm Rachael Jayne Groover. I'm the creator of the Art of Feminine Presence trainings that we hold worldwide. And blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? Head bubble. I've got my script. And now I'm coming back into womb space. And not only does the resonance of my voice change, but something happens in our connection. Even though you can't see me. Can you feel it?
Melinda Wittstock: Yeah, I can. It's hard to figure out how to put words to it, but you do get a sense of, yeah. It's just like yada, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Right? And there's no real resonance.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Exactly. And unfortunately, I work with many conscious women business owners. When they walk into a training of ours, no matter how much yoga they've done in their lives. Almost everyone walks into that room with a head bubble. And these are conscious women, let alone the rest of the planets. Right?
So it's about grounding them into that place so they are unshakable, no matter how many eyeballs are on them. No matter how many of them are the masculine. No matter what's coming at them, the conflict and all of that. I still have those speeches that go down where some person is at the back of the room trying to pull me down and shoot me a few new spears because of what I'm saying. But I can stay unshakable in that, where a few years ago, there was no way I could do that.
Melinda Wittstock: Yeah. It takes, I guess practice. I'm challenging myself with something that really requires me to get out of my comfort zone. I'm doing stand up comedy.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Yeah.
Melinda Wittstock: In New York, with a bunch of entrepreneurs at Caroline’s on Broadway. October 21st everybody. If you're in New York, you got to come laugh with me. But this is really interesting, because it does challenge you to write in a different way and just a different stage presence. And what does it mean for a woman to do stand up? And typically, I'm the only woman in this group of great guys, but I'm the only one. And it's a really interesting challenge. I'm excited about it.
Rachael Jayne Groover: That's awesome. Yeah. Talk about challenging yourself. That's probably the number one way you can do it.
Melinda Wittstock: I do that all the time. I like to get out of, I like to confront fear head on and do the things that frighten me. So [inaudible [spp-timestamp time="00:33:45"] up in the Amazon, or ending up swimming with sharks, or stuff like that, right? I think okay, well how hard could that be? It's the same attitude of just starting some scalable business. How hard could that be? And of course it's always much harder than you think. But in the end with some of these experiences, you get through them and you think well, actually that wasn't so bad.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Yeah. It's going to give you a great standup material.
Melinda Wittstock: Oh gosh, I've got a lot.
Rachael Jayne Groover: I bet.
Melinda Wittstock: But I just think about my entrepreneurial journey. And there were just so many funny moments. And they didn't necessarily seem funny at the time, but you look back and you look back through a lens of the spiritual growth that it's pushed you towards really. And it is hilarious. Humanity is kind of hilarious to me now. So tell me a little bit more about your business, and where it's going, and what are some of the things that you really want to go and do next?
Rachael Jayne Groover: Yeah. Well, the Art of Feminine Presence was the first training that I put together. We're in our 10th year anniversary this year. We've worked with over 12,000 women through one of the trainings, and most corners of the globe. And it started in my living room really with five women who wanted to learn these practices that I was doing that were making me look and feel authentically confident, and magnetic, and all of that. And it just grew out of the living room, really. I only had small ideas of being a life coach. And then everything started moving.
And now out of that, my husband and I, business partners. And we have a team of 12 here that work out of a rural property in the beautiful mountains of Colorado here. So everything's really working well with Art of Feminine Presence. And we started a event called The Awakening, which is for entrepreneurs who are on a consciousness path. Actually the consciousness raising message, so that's really fun. We do with the awakened speaker training and other things to help people not just get the templates. Go to a speak to sell workshop. And this is how you do it. This is how you do it. But really how to get into the flow state to receive your message so you're not always in that head bubble again. And you can break out of being one of lots of people to really stand out voice. And I think the other thing that, well two things I'm really excited about. We're going to India for the first time with Art of Feminine Presence next year. We sold out in three and a half hours a couple of weeks ago. It was amazing.
Melinda Wittstock: Wow. That's awesome.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Yeah. Thank you. And then we are looking for a retreat center because I'm really sick of being in hotels. And really sick of, we take people so deep, and they're very energetic practices and meditation. And expanding the mind in pretty profound ways. Then you're like open up the doors, and you're next to the drinking and the weddings. The other week we were in Atlanta and it was this pageant, a beauty pageant with these small kids who were getting screamed at by their moms [inaudible [spp-timestamp time="00:37:12"] I'm like, I really have a huge passion about land, and environment, and getting people back into nature. And when you're doing spiritual and personal work, I think it's really important.
Melinda Wittstock: Yeah. That's why I'm having my retreats at, we've taken over an entire resort. It's more intimate for 36 women, max capacity. But it's in this really abundant location just outside of Scottsdale. So you just look out and [inaudible [spp-timestamp time="00:37:43"] all around. It is abundant and the whole property is like that. So there's no interference from anybody else. I think what you're saying is so important. I mean, I'm also leading a bunch of men and women down to Costa Rica in December for the same reason. Yeah, you really do need that. I just had this a picture in my mind of these kinds of stage mothers and their little girls and thinking oh man. They need what you're doing.
Rachael Jayne Groover: I know. It was the biggest antithesis of what we do. This little girl comes into the elevator, and she's got this towel. Her mom's holding this towel. It's not wrapped around her. And we realize she's naked. [inaudible [spp-timestamp time="00:38:28"] she just had her spray tanning. So she's just going up in the elevator with a spray tan [inaudible [spp-timestamp time="00:38:36"]. I shouldn't say anymore. It's whatever, that's the worst trauma that she gets, then lucky her. But yeah, it's getting out into nature. We have, the awakening is usually 250, 300 people. And we can't do it in those big events. But yeah, once we get down to 40 or 50 people, I'd love to have our own space that we can do what you're doing and be uninterrupted to do the work.
Melinda Wittstock: It's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for a beautiful conversation. I want to make sure people know how to find you and work with you.
Rachael Jayne Groover: Yeah, you can go to rachaeljayne.com. That's our main site, and it's Rachael James spelled a bit weird. R-A-C-H-A-E-L J-A-Y-N-E .com. And I've got a free virtual training. If anyone wants to do some of the practices and learn them, whether it's for your getting capital, doing stage, doing videos, or stand up comedy. You can go to artoffemininepresence.com/fullyexpressed. And that is my training, Fully expressed. How to get the brakes off, be a lot more visible and well compensated as a feminine leader.
Melinda Wittstock: Wonderful. Rachael Jayne, thank you so much for putting on your Wings and flying with us.
Rachael Jayne Groover: You're welcome. It was so fun today, Melinda. Thanks for having me.
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